Forum Activity for @marg

marg
@marg
08/05/15 03:55:06PM
620 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I have I think the mechanical friction pegs. I am hoping the knobs I have ordered will fit and that is all I need, the pegs seems to be good. If the knobs for some reason don't fit, I will be asking for help again. Fingers cross, still.


IMG_20150731_130810713.jpg IMG_20150731_130810713.jpg - 156KB
Mark Runge
@mark-runge
08/05/15 02:54:16PM
7 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

John covered it all! 



But I will put a plug in for the Wittner geared pegs. They are pricey but well worth it I've found.

For me the look of a traditional friction peg with an 8.5:1 fine tuning gear ratio is wonderful! These are the only pegs I use--besides friction pegs.

The hole does have to be tapered, but once the pegs are in place they are good to go! A plus with these pegs is that they don't actually spin--the shaft inside the tubular housing does, so they can be used in softer wood with no wobbling out of the hole.

I use the violo pegs because the size is right for my dulcimers.

Dusty Turtle
@dusty
08/05/15 01:14:59PM
1,851 posts

Transition from Dulcimer to guitar


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I played guitar for most of my life (not always very seriously) before discovering the dulcimer in my mid-40s.  The diatonic fretboard was very hard to understand coming from a chromatic instrument (and I still find it maddening) in ways that it wouldn't if the dulcimer were your first instrument.  But what did carry over and made me an intermediate player within an hour of holding a dulcimer was technique.  My right hand was already very advanced, and even my left hand understood fully how to fret strings, how to employ slides and hammer-ons and pull-offs and that stuff. So a lot of the technique carries over between the two instruments.  In terms of understanding the fretboard, well that's a different question.

 

If I get frustrated with the dulcimer (my main instrument now), I will take a break and play another one (guitar, ukulele, etc). Sometimes I'll play something on one of those instruments and try to find it on the dulcimer, thus reinvigorating my dulcimer playing, even if that lick or that song has to be altered to fit on the dulcimer.

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
08/05/15 01:14:09PM
1,342 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

John covered it well. Often when going from violin pegs to planetary pegs the holes need to be enlarged. That's happens going to Sta-Tites or Grover Champions, both of which are mechanical friction pegs.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Patty from Virginia
@patty-from-virginia
08/05/15 01:06:50PM
231 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I had the Sta Tite metal friction tuners on my McSpadden replaced with the planetary geared tuners. Those are the ones on the currednt McSpadden scroll head type dulcimers. Ken Longfield and Kevin Messinger did an excellent job of installing them. They had to ream the holes a bit at a time. If you are interested in changing tuners and the holes need to be bigger I suggest you contact a luthier to install them unless you have wood working experience. Jim Woods responded to an email I sent him in reference to changing out the tuners. He said it's real easy to split the wood and recommended NOT using a drill. I contacted Kevin and Ken. I'm glad I made that decision.   

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/05/15 12:47:47PM
259 posts

Peacock Quills


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Ken, update on the peacock quills: They flake a little when used, leaving a kind of gorilla dandruff situation on the fret board. I'm guessing that is what you were referring to when you wrote that they are not particularly strong? Oh well, I'll have to go to the next local turkey shoot and git me some quills. 

P.S. for those of you not familiar with a turkey shoot, real turkeys are not shot, just targets. At least in the NC where I live... whew

robert schuler
@robert-schuler
08/05/15 12:18:16PM
258 posts

Transition from Dulcimer to guitar


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I've played both guitar and dulcimer for over 40 years and can honestly say they are two different disciplines. Being a good guitar player will not make you a good dulcimer player. . Robert. 

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/05/15 11:52:37AM
259 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Charles, I just ordered some V picks, Bing Ultra, Bing Lite, and Tremolo Round. I've been using a yellow Herdim, but it's too soft for me. Which is harder, the red or blue Herim, do you know?

Robin Thompson
@robin-thompson
08/05/15 11:12:40AM
1,560 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

John, you covered the topic nicely!  I'd like to add a brief mention about how using a false nut (small piece of wood or other hard material) under the drone strings makes re-tuning a lap dulcimer with zither pins fairly easy. 

marg
@marg
08/05/15 10:37:22AM
620 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Thank You John,  what a great history lesson on all the pegs.

John C. Knopf
@john-c-knopf
08/05/15 09:54:15AM
447 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Hello!  Yes, there are several types of tuners out there, all of which serve to tighten a string to pitch.  Some do it more effectively than others.  The difference is in their price, style, materials used, and appearance.  

You could use screw eyes as they used to put on Tennessee music boxes, or use so-called zither pins which have a fine thread that goes down into solid wood.  These are more difficult to use than the others, and are not suited to constant re-tuning.  Getting them to the exact spot you want is not easy! And zither pins require a separate key or wrench to adjust.

Violin pegs could be used, or Perfection pegs which are actually geared mechanical pegs made to look like wooden pegs.  Both of these require fitting their tapers to reamed holes by a qualified luthier.

Planetary pegs, such as the ones made by Waverly, are large and expensive, but very smooth in operation.  

Guitar machines range from the very cheap, open-geared type to smooth-working, sealed Grover or Gotoh types with beautiful finishes.  

Friction pegs are made for banjos, but work well with dulcimers.  They don't like the heavier-gauge strings, however, and have a hard time holding them up to pitch.  The strength of grip is adjusted by means of a screw in the end of the knob.

You can usually replace one type of tuner with another, depending on how the holes in the pegbox are done. Holes that are too large can be plugged and redrilled, but it's a lot of work.

As far as my Number 1 choice goes, it depends on what dulcimer I'm working on.  Historic reproductions get tuners that are appropriate to their style (usually handcarved wooden pegs). Modern dulcimers can be fitted with just about any of the types. If price (and space) were no object, I'd use the planetary tuners.

marg
@marg
08/05/15 04:27:12AM
620 posts

Types of tuners


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Gear tuners, pegs, friction tuners with the screw at the end of the knob - are there other types of tuners?

Is it hard to replace a tuner or can one type be replace with another type?

Do they all hold the tune or is one better than the other? Why is one chosen over an other - style, history, looks, work ability?

Are there pros and cons for each? What would your number 1 choice be?


updated by @marg: 06/08/16 09:24:05PM
marg
@marg
08/05/15 04:10:33AM
620 posts

Fretboard width


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

I saw you had posted ' Needs a tuner to be replaced' were you able to get this fixed? I don't have a McSpadden but also have tuner problems or their knobs. I have ordered replacement knobs and are waiting for them to come and hope that will take care of things. Ken, Rob and many members are very helpful, when we ask our questions someone is always able to give im-put. 

Enjoy your new adventures with the dulcimer

William Mann
@william-mann
08/05/15 04:06:13AM
22 posts

Carts for hauling your stuff around at a workshop


Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Second the Office Depot folding cart, though I got mine at Office Max (same company now).  A lot of plastic, so I'm concerned about the long-term durability, but it has served me well so far.  Carries two dulcimers in form-fit cases (not the big hardshells), plus my Microcube amp with its attendant cords/cables, and a ring binder.  Pull it up on stage and unload, turn it around backside to the audience, collapse the extendable handle, hang my group's custom banner from the handle, place a light plywood board (which also fits in the cart) across the top, and it's a music stand!  It has milk crate-style sides; I can even leave the amp inside and reach through to turn it on and adjust volume.

Lois Sprengnether Keel
@lois-sprengnether-keel
08/04/15 11:36:18PM
197 posts

Carts for hauling your stuff around at a workshop


Dulcimer Resources:TABS/Books/websites/DVDs

Yes, the idea of CATS transporting dulcimers is a great laugh, but one dog can do the work of a dozen cats.  There are cloth bags that fit on either side of a dog.  Of course my dog (a husky/malamute mix) would just run away with the instruments quicker than I could shout MUSH!  Maybe somebody with a more obedient dog inclined towards being a service dog?faceplant

Charles Thomas
@charles-thomas
08/04/15 09:38:15PM
77 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I use a V pick Bing Ultra Lite or a red Herdim with my index and middle fingers on one side and my thumb on the other with very little of the pick showing(1/4 inch of so). I've also used thicker picks (2.75 mm), felt picks, leather picks, Metal finger picks , plus any number of guitar picks . It's fun to experiment with creating new sounds! I agree with Ken Hulme, don't use a "death grip" hold it lightly so it sort of floats in your fingers. The V pick is naturaly sticky and Herdims have some texture so they don't slip.


updated by @charles-thomas: 08/04/15 09:49:48PM
Wout Blommers
@wout-blommers
08/04/15 09:06:58PM
96 posts

Transition from Dulcimer to guitar


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

First of all there are 3/4 and 1/2 sized guitars to be used by people with small hands, like children. Some have a rather good sound. Also there are four and three string guitars, but those are hard to find.
To compare the dulcimer and the guitar is easy, special for the left hand (if you are right handed). The dulcimer has five fingers available to stop three strings, where the guitar has only four to six strings. Special when playing chords the later can be painfull, even when you have large hands like me. Playing the barré grip Eb on the third position is a disaster, so never play the guitar in a big band with all those brass instruments or use the sixth position.
On the guitar the force of stopping the string is delivered by the thumb muscle (beware of the string action), where on the dulcimer the force is produced by the whole arm and your thigh or the table. You can check this feeling the muscles in your left arm when playing: on the dulcimer you can feel the triceps working, at least, I can :-)
Chord grips on the dulcimer are much more ergonomic to the hand, special when the tuning is DAA.
Dulcimer players are used to 'scordatura', retuning the strings to fit the song better on the instrument, where most guitar players stick to the standard of EADGBE. BTW anyone ever tried a noter&drone guitar: EAE BB and using a slide?
Other differences between the two instruments are the volume - to get more sound out of a dulcimer the kitchen table is used as an extra resonator - and the fact the player can use the guitar standing or walking, which is rather difficult for a dulcimer. For a serenade under the window of your lovers room beter bring your guitar. Although the dulcimer is cheaper and easier to build, those two last arguments made the guitar more successful in the beginning of the twentieth century, which also could result in a beter love life or a wet suit...


updated by @wout-blommers: 08/04/15 09:20:15PM
Lexie R Oakley
@lexie-r-oakley
08/04/15 08:18:54PM
229 posts



I received my mini universal tuner, it is tiny and clips on, works fine. Kind of convienent and I really like the red and green lit up bars it shows, easy to see and use.

Monica
@monica
08/04/15 07:21:01PM
64 posts

Transition from Dulcimer to guitar


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I am not currently playing the guitar Jennifer, but if it doesn't make it easier i will stick with Dulcimers for now.

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/04/15 03:33:51PM
259 posts



Steve, Greenville SC is nice. But don't let the calendar date fool you. It's going to be HOT.  sun

Bob Reinsel
@bob-reinsel
08/04/15 01:42:55PM
80 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Strumelia, I think you're right about smaller/heavier picks making less noise, or at least less obvious noise.  I think thinner picks have a brighter slap sound where thicker ones tend to have more of a thunk to them.  How's that for qualitative analysis?  thumbsup

By the way, for those who are intereted in Gorilla Snot, you want the drumtisck/pick gripper stuff, not the hair gel. :-)

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/04/15 12:27:49PM
259 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I see some serious experimentation in my near future. You guys have all provided such helpful information on this topic; that's what I love about FOTMD. 

Strumelia
@strumelia
08/04/15 12:08:08PM
2,409 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Personally, I find I have more 'pick noise' (I see it as 'pick percussion') when my pick is longer and/or more flexible/thin.
I myself have found that a short stiff thicker rounded-cornered guitar pick tends to gives the least pick noise.  But that also happens to be the hardest to hold onto if you are doing vigorous strumming and strong flatpicking.  In those cases, try a dab of GorillaSnot product on your fingertips-  it lasts through a jam but rubs off easily when you're done.  Just like violin rosin, it's made from tree rosin but in a paste-like medium, in a little jar.  Smells like xmas trees. 

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/04/15 12:04:16PM
259 posts



Steve, with smaller bins, new rules, and uncertain attitudes, I would not risk being turned away and missing my flight altogether. And these days they are overbooking flights. Last time I flew, there wasn't enough bin space for everyone aboard the plane. sweating

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/04/15 11:58:20AM
259 posts

Transition from Dulcimer to guitar


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Monica, I have small hands, so I have trouble making the chords with on a six string guitar. I went with a tenor ukulele and I'm not having any trouble with the chords. 

Monica
@monica
08/04/15 10:27:28AM
64 posts

Transition from Dulcimer to guitar


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Over the years I have played around a bit on the guitar, but I never found it easy to wrap my fingers around the fret board or to produce a nice sound. With the dulcimer It all comes more naturally and playing is done with more ease and I can produce a pleasing tone to my ears. 

I am curious to know if any one has found the transition from Dulcimer to Guitar easy. If experience and mastery of the mountain dulcimer facilitated in making guitar palying easier?


updated by @monica: 08/01/23 02:50:07PM
Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
08/04/15 08:59:03AM
1,342 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Randy, thanks for the Robert Force video. Cornwall is a nice piece.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/04/15 08:44:57AM
259 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Great advice, Ken! Yes, I've been applying the death grip, and I didn't even know it. 

Randy, Thanks for the Rober Force vid. It always helps to have a visual. Very interesting style. 

I can't wait to try it.

Randy Adams
@randy-adams
08/04/15 07:15:51AM
125 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

marg
@marg
08/04/15 12:54:54AM
620 posts

Old red stain dulcimer


Instruments- discuss specific features, luthiers, instrument problems & questions

Fingers cross it wont be too long. knobs are ordered and if they fit should be an easy fix. I will keep all postd. 

Ken Hulme
@ken-hulme
08/03/15 11:44:12PM
2,157 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Personally, I strum in the manner Randy doesn't like.  But that's OK.  It's the way I was taught by Robert Force, areguably one of the best  dulcimer players of all time, and the technique sure works for me.  IMHO one of the 'secrets' to less pick noise is to loosen up that 'death grip' and relax.  WHo cares if your pick goes flying acrss the room  You do have more than one, right?

Jim Kirkwood
@jim-kirkwood
08/03/15 09:48:13PM
0 posts

Thoughts on Harmonicas


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I like Lee Oskars.  I don't mind trading the mellow wood for the ease of the plastic comb.

 

Lexie R Oakley
@lexie-r-oakley
08/03/15 03:42:57PM
229 posts

Native American Flutes


Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hehee, I just ordered a flute for myself and one for Lil' Girly from High Spirits, mine is white ceder in medium tone "A" a "Sparrow Hawk" and Girly's is in Birch a high "D" called "Kestral" each are 6 hole but one can be covered up. We shall get them in 5 days or so and I will let you know how we do.

I am thrilled, I want to have this be a thing we can do together and create music together.giggle2


updated by @lexie-r-oakley: 10/01/23 01:37:29PM
Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/03/15 03:21:45PM
259 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Bob, thanks for your input. I'll "borrow" a few of my sons guitar picks and play around with this angle method, and see what works for me.

Also, what you wrote about pick noise being louder for me because of being so close to the instrument makes me realize I need to back up my little recorder that I use to record myself, so that I can see where my issues are when I am learning a song. Maybe my recording quality will improve too.

Bob Reinsel
@bob-reinsel
08/03/15 03:05:42PM
80 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Sheryl, I have to answer your question in two parts. 

1. The video is actually by randy adams: @randy-adams happys

2. I  strum in a similar way to what Randy shows.  The return stroke is just the reverse of the out stroke.  Nothing fancy.  I hold the pick a little more loosely or tightly depending on the effect I want.  

For general use, I prefer a thinner (softer) pick, but I also switch to different weights for different purposes.  I even use a pick cut from a plastic butter tub lid when I want something really soft.  Pick choice for me also varies from isntrument to instrument.

Probably 90% of the time I use these picks, at least right now I do:  http://www.amazon.com/Tortex-Guitar-Pick-Pack-418P-50/dp/B0002D0CEO .  I also like the old standby fender thin plastic tortoise shell type.  I got used to them playing guitar.

This is such a personal choice I suggest trying different things until you find something you are comfortable with.  Also, remember that when you play, you are sitting pretty much on top of your instrument, so you hear things (like pick slap) that other people don't.  Even those just a few feet away.


updated by @bob-reinsel: 08/03/15 03:31:12PM
Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/03/15 03:04:24PM
259 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Oh, oops, I see Randy Adams made the video. Thanks for correcting me Ken. blush

Ken Longfield
@ken-longfield
08/03/15 03:01:18PM
1,342 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Bob, thanks for sharing Randy's video. It addresses this question well.

Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Sheryl St. Clare
@sheryl-st-clare
08/03/15 02:38:31PM
259 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Bob, This is a timely video for me. I’ve been pretty unhappy with my pick noise. Glad you decided to address this for us. Quick question, you mentioned in your video to angle 20-25 degrees on the out strum, what is happening on your in strum? And do you prefer a softer or harder pick for reducing pick noise? Thanks for the video. 

D, I'm glad you asked this question!  

Bob Reinsel
@bob-reinsel
08/03/15 01:47:28PM
80 posts

Please Don't Pick on Me. *tee hee!*


General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Here is one way described by fellow FOTMD member Randy Adams:


updated by @bob-reinsel: 08/03/15 01:47:59PM
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